神马文学网Geeking with Greg: In a world with infinite storage, bandwidth, and CPU power
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Thursday, March 02, 2006
In a world with infinite storage, bandwidth, and CPU power
Google is hosting an analyst day today. I found skimming the 94 slide presentation (In particular, I liked slide 19, 20, and 31, all of which makes it clear that Google isn't losing its wide-eyed optimism.
Slide31 says that Google's philosophy to new product development is "noconstraints" and that they initially ignore "CPU power, storage,bandwidth, and monetization."
Slide 20 says (in the notes) that Google plans to "get all the worlds information, not just some."
Andslide 19 (in the notes) talks about how their work is inspired by theidea of "a world with infinite storage, bandwidth, and CPU power." Theysay that "the experience should really be instantaneous". They say thatthey should be able to "house all user files, including: emails, webhistory, pictures, bookmarks, etc and make it accessible from anywhere(any device, any platform, etc)" which leads to a world where "theonline copy of your data will become your Golden Copy and yourlocal-machine copy serves more like a cache". And, they say that theywant "transparent personalization" that uses user "data totransparently optimize the user's experience ... implicitly."
Googlealso recommits to a future with personalized search. They say in thenotes on slide 12 that they will "introduce new personalizationelements" and that they view that as one of two major directions fortheir efforts to improve relevance rank.
Some might be inclinedto dismiss all this talk as the wild fantasies of engineers with toomuch caffeine, but I think Google does see their ability to build outtheir massive cluster as one of their primary competitive advantages. Ithink they do intend to continuing extending their computinginfrastructure until everyone everywhere really does feel that theyhave near infinite CPU power and storage at their fingertips.
[link to presentation via Paul Kedrosky]
Update:It appears Google suddenly removed the PPT file. Ugh. Well, sorry, but,unless you moved quickly, looks like there's no way to see it anymore.
Update: Google just made a PDF version of the slides available.
Unfortunately,this new PDF version of the slides no longer has the notes attached toeach slide, so you can't see some of what I was referring to in mycomments above.
However, I did download the original PPTpresentation. Though I didn't keep a copy, I recently discovered thatmy Google Desktop cache does contain a text-only copy of notes forslide 12 and most of slide 19. The cached copy ends in the middle ofthe notes for slide 19.
Here are the notes from slide 12 with the reference to using personalized search to improve relevance rank:
Lead in SearchAndhere are part of the notes from slide 19. Unfortunately, my cached copyends right before the discussion of "transparent personalization" thatI mentioned above:
Asthe market leader, we need to ensure search doesn't become a commodity.Our focus on search is nothing new. We built our brand on being thebest search engine, with the best results, and as our competitors havecaught up to us, it's become even more important for us to focus on:
1) Speed
Solve international speed issues and bring international users to US performance
2) Comprehensiveness and freshness
"All webpages included in the Google index and searched all the time" -- Teragoogle makes this possible
Expand to other sources of data
Become the leader in geo search (any search with a geographic component).
New forms of content -- video, audio, offline printed materials
3) Relevance
Leverage implicit and explicit user feedback to improve popular and nav queries
Introduce new personalization elements
4) User Interface
Experiment with several new UI features to make the user experience better
In a world with infinite storage, bandwidth, and CPU power, here's what we could do with consumer products --Update: Derrick made the full notes for slide 19 available in the comments to this post.
Theme 1: Speed
Seemssimple, but should not be overlooked because impact is huge. Usersdon't realize how slow things are until they get something faster.
Users assume it takes time for a webpage to load, but the experience should really be instantaneous.
Gmailstarted to do this for webmail, but that's just a small first step.Infinite bandwidth will make this a reality for all applications.
Theme 2: Store 100% of User Data
Withinfinite storage, we can house all user files, including: emails, webhistory, pictures, bookmarks, etc and make it accessible from anywhere(any device, any platform, etc).
We already have efforts in thisdirection in terms of GDrive, GDS, Lighthouse, but all of them facebandwidth and storage constraints today. For example: Firefox team isworking on server side stored state but they want to store only URLsrather than complete web pages for storage reasons. This theme willhelp us make the client less important (thin client, thick servermodel) which suits our strength vis-a-vis Microsoft and is also ofgreat value to the user.
As we move toward the "Store 100%" reality,the online copy of your data will become your Golden Copy and yourlocal-machine copy serves more like a cache. An important implicationof this theme is that we can make your online copy more secure than itwould be on your own machine.
Another important implication of thistheme is that storing 100% of a user's data makes each piece of datamore valuable because it can be access across applications. Forexample: a user's Orkut profile has more value when it's accessiblefrom Gmail (as addressbook), Lighthouse (as access lis...[...TRUNCATED...]
Update: The full story about why the PPT version of these slides disappeared is now clear.
WhenI first posted a few excerpts from the notes to the slides, I hadassumed that the notes were intended for the speakers of thepresentation. I was annoyed and even a bit angry when the PPT waspulled, not fully comprehending why Google wouldn't want to make thenotes generally available.
It now appears that many of the notesin the slides were cut-and-pasted from other presentations, neverintended for Google Analyst Day. As mb points out in the comments tothis post, the notes for slide 10 contain an odd reference to CBS, something I didn't notice when I originally was reviewing the slide deck.
Evenworse, the notes to slide 14 contain revenue projections for next year,also something I didn't notice previously. Because Google publishedthese projections to their website, even briefly, they were forced tofile a 8-K with the SEC. In that filing, they say that the notes were "not speaker notes prepared for the Analyst Day presentation."
All very unfortunate.
Google'smission may be "to organize the world's information and make ituniversally accessible," but some information is not intended to beaccessed by all.
Update: After waiting for the press storm to fade, Paul Kedrosky posts the original PPT file with the troublesome notes included.
Update: Nearly two years later, the WSJ reportsthat "a service that would let users store on its computers essentiallyall of the files they might keep ... could be released as early as afew months from now."Posted byGreg Lindenat3:00 PM
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Geeking with Greg: In a world with infinite storage, bandwidth, and CPU power
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Greg the .ppt got removed from the Google site. Any chance you still have a copy?
Huh, I don't see any way to get to it anymore, you're right.
No,I don't have a cached copy. I guess I should have made one, but itnever occurred to me that Google would pull the slides after postingthem.
Sorry about that.
Looks like they didn't delete them, they just converted them to pdf.
Found the links on this page:
http://investor.google.com/webcast.html
http://investor.google.com/pdf/20060302_nonGAAP_recon.pdf
http://investor.google.com/pdf/20060302_analyst_day.pdf
new link is
http://investor.google.com/pdf/20060302_analyst_day.pdf
Thanks, Anonymous. I updated my post.
Greg, I do have a copy of the PPT:
check my blog.
http://tomcaster.com/blog/2006/03/03/google-2006-strategy/
Here is the full text comment of pg 19. What the heck is lighthouse and is there a GDrive project within Google?
Purpose of this slide:
In a world with infinite storage, bandwidth, and CPU power, here's what we could do with consumer products…
Theme 1: Speed
Seemssimple, but should not be overlooked because impact is huge. Usersdon't realize how slow things are until they get something faster.
Users assume it takes time for a webpage to load, but the experience should really be instantaneous.
Gmailstarted to do this for webmail, but that's just a small first step.Infinite bandwidth will make this a reality for all applications.
Theme 2: Store 100% of User Data
Withinfinite storage, we can house all user files, including: emails, webhistory, pictures, bookmarks, etc and make it accessible from anywhere(any device, any platform, etc).
We already have efforts in thisdirection in terms of GDrive, GDS, Lighthouse, but all of them facebandwidth and storage constraints today. For example: Firefox team isworking on server side stored state but they want to store only URLsrather than complete web pages for storage reasons. This theme willhelp us make the client less important (thin client, thick servermodel) which suits our strength vis-a-vis Microsoft and is also ofgreat value to the user.
As we move toward the "Store 100%" reality,the online copy of your data will become your Golden Copy and yourlocal-machine copy serves more like a cache. An important implicationof this theme is that we can make your online copy more secure than itwould be on your own machine.
Another important implication of thistheme is that storing 100% of a user's data makes each piece of datamore valuable because it can be access across applications. Forexample: a user's Orkut profile has more value when it's accessiblefrom Gmail (as addressbook), Lighthouse (as access list), etc.
Theme 3: Transparent Personalization
Themore data, access, and processing Google can handle for the user, thegreater our ability to use that data to transparently optimize theuser's experience.
Google Desktop w/ RSS Feeds is a good firstexample: the user should not have to tell us which RSS feeds they wantto subscribe to. We should be able to determine this implicitly.
Otherpotential examples: User should not have to specify the "From" addressin Google Maps; user should not have to specify which currency theywant to see Froogle prices in; user should not have to manually entertheir buddy list into Google Talk.
Thanks, Derrick!
No idea on Lighthouse and GDrive. Goodcatch, I haven't heard about those before. Perhaps projects that areonly available internally?
Hmm, the ppt from the link above seems to be corrupt--Powerpoint choked when it opened it. (?)
For example: a user's Orkut profile has more value when it'saccessible from Gmail (as addressbook), Lighthouse (as access lis...[...TRUNCATED...]
Goddamn cliffhanger of the month.
Oho, just saw derrick's comment. Too bad it doesn't clarify anything.
I have some ideas on what Lighthouse might be.
sorry, the folder was wrong
now it works
http://tomcaster.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/20060302_analyst_day.ppt
the PPT above from Tomy doesn't have any comments in the deck. Slide 19 says nothing more than "Store 100%".
I like the story of the disappearing ppt:
- For some weird (?)reason, if you search for 20060302_analyst_day.ppt on Google, nothingcomes up (not even in the Google cache ;-). alltheweb at least findsGreg's mention, Yahoo even tomcaster's copy (which lacks the comments)...
What's GDS? Google Digital Storage?
/Henrik
I think GDS is Google Desktop Search.
The latest version of Google Desktop Search can store the index to your files on Google's servers. See
http://desktop.google.com/features.html#searchremote
Hot news, too bad nobody seems able to accurately make a copy and post it on their own site.
An important implication of this theme is that we can make your online copy more secure than it would be on your own machine.
Exceptnow the government does not need a warrant any more to access yourinformation, it can be requested with just a subpoena, which issuprisingly easy to get. Admittingly though, for the average user thiswould be more secure, its just the legal ramifications that worry me.
That's actually really weird. Though I happen to download the PPTright after Greg commented on it, I never my self saw the attachedcomments.
Does Eric Smith mention the GDrive and Lighthouse durinng the Webcast?
I think it's ironic. Google promises "no contraints" - and thenpromptly deletes its own content, so it has actually created aconstraint and has prevented readers from seeing the PPT ! Sounds likesomething Big Brother would do. " Constraints " are defined by google ,not by the user !
Who doesn't have at least one copyright-violating media file on their computer, and how many will trust Google to store it?
Great stuff, Greg. It’s a classic blunder that many companies make,inadvertently leaving information in Microsoft Office documents thatthey don’t want the outside world to see. They also revealed that theyhave little understanding of usability for investor relations websites.I've explained that here.
Obviously, searches will go faster if everything (that means Everything) is on Google's petabyte drives.
But is it a good idea for Our Stuff to be on Their Machine? Some, yes, everything, perhaps not.
Great stuff,
Perhaps lighthouse is an IM app based on the google talk format thatimplicitly finds your important contacts. Maybe the bandwidthconstraint is the use of voice recognition to search gtalk voice calls,or maybe some sort of video conferencing and video conference archivesearch. I wouldn't put it past them, especially given their recentforay into "voicemail" inside gmail.
Google just stole Microsoft's idea of central computers and all theothers linking to it being dub terminals. That is a few years old!
I put the rest of the slide comments up:
http://absolutevalue.blogspot.com
None as interesting as pg 19, but for googleholics like me, more is always better!
Derrick, do you have a copy of the original PPT file? Are you willing to make it available?
Google just stole Microsoft's idea of central computers and allthe others linking to it being dub terminals. That is a few years old!
You're kidding right? That concept predates Microsoft by a long time.
Lighthouse. If you look at the context, it is refering to aninterface which can access information. Gmail accesses information fromOrkut. Lighthouse must also be a Web-interface. My guess is that it isfile access. Similar to Flikr except files. So, when I upload a MS Worddocument, I can post it to Lighthouse for it to be viewed/reviewed byanyone I designate who has a gmail account. Consider the technology ofSharepoint and put it into Google terms.. makes a lot of sense.
he's either kidding, fell asleep in history class or too young to know better.
whyeven bother with thin clients? embed 3d graphic ards into our monitorsand send opengl instructions directly to the monitor. we can all throwms's os, intel's cpu's into the trash.
he's either kidding, fell asleep in history class or too young to know better.
whyeven bother with thin clients? embed 3d graphic ards into our monitorsand send opengl instructions directly to the monitor. we can all throwms's os, intel's cpu's into the trash.
It's kinda funny that Google got burned by accidental release ofinformation, just like privacy advocates are worried that users willget burned when the Google Grid archives our digital lives.
TodayGoogle filed an 8-K with the SEC since some of the presentationcomments contained financial projections. In the 8-K, they say someslides were copied from an "internal product strategy presentation."(Seehttp://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000119312506047267/d8k.htm)
Fromreading the full notes at Derrick's site, it seems that other slidesmay have been copied from presentations to CBS. Witness Slide 10 whichattempts to sell CBS on exposing their video "assets" to the "wisdom ofcrowds."
(See http://absolutevalue.blogspot.com/2006/03/analyst-day-slide-comments.html)
Yeah infinite storage so they can sell all our secret information to the U.S. government damn it!
Yeah infinite storage so they can sell all our secret information to the U.S. government damn it!
No, Google will never cooperate with the U.S. government. -- they won't give child porn records to the Justice Department.
However, Google might be willing to cooperate with the Communist Chinese.
100% storage ... except when it comes to this instance. Oh, the irony!
i can't believe nobody saved a copy of the original PPT. surely someone must have it. ???
I have a copy of that ppt. if u want i can send that by mail.
if you do then send it to greg
> Anonymous said...
> I have a copy of that ppt.
> if u want i can send that by mail
Hi Anonymous,
Do you have the original .ppt file with All the original NOTES intact ??
Ifso, you could always zip it (it compresses from 19MB to just 6MB) andupload it to the free site http://www.rapidshare.de and then just postthe download link :)
Cheers
Google is really becoming evil now.. if the whole world keeps thereinformation on google then the information will be in googles hands notin our.. the removing of the ppt is an example...
google can do what ever it can...
after google china issue i don't believe gogole...
looks like Google Grid will eventually turn into "The Matrix" the evil AI from the Movie...
I remember Mr. Ellison from Oracle wanting to do this a long timeago... everything will be in a thin client experience with no "pc"needed. I disagree with the part about upgrading everyone to U.S.speeds....try Eastern world speeds with their fiber everywhere. TheU.S. needs to catch up man.
Can we all get back on topic !!
ie. Someone please post the original .ppt file with the original NOTES
Zipit first (it compresses from 19MB to just 6MB) and upload it to the anyfree site like http://www.rapidshare.de and then just post the downloadlink :)
Dave
Someone has to come up with the original PPT that includes thenotes! I've downloaded the few copies available and none of them havethe notes. Did they ever exist or is this a hoax!
...
> An important implication of this
> theme is that we can make your online copy more secure than it
> would be on your own machine.
...
> Another important implication of this theme is that storing 100%
> of a user's data makes each piece of data more valuable
Google likes to throw ideas out there, to use the market as their
computing device for what works. However, by the reasons (*) listed below, google already knows that this one will not fly.
Whydo this, then? They might be just trying to raise market awareness forthe problems of such approach. Even though Microsoft already had topull the plug on a very similar program (google "hailstorm microsoft"),Microsoft is still in an ideal situation to try it again and better.Which (given users' notorious naivete') would kill a large marketsegment
for google's search -- namely, every Internet user. Of course, google's
search appliance for enterprises (and later, a more affordable gadget
for the masses) would not have these problems...
Brilliant preventive move by google, it seems, as it looks for options
-- and time -- to better place its technology.
Cheers,
Ed Gerck
(*) What google proposes is a direct contradiction, for several reasons:
(1) Because you *still* have your local copy, the online copy becomes
an _additional_ risk. Risk MUST increase with the added online copy.
(2) Even if the online copy is encrypted (best case) with a key that
google does NOT have, the file may still be attacked and decrypted by
a variety of methods -- some of them not even cryptographically or
computationally limited.
(3) Losing physical control of your data (by placing a copy under
google's control) cannot be recalled. It's a final revocation of
your sole control rights.
(4) Creates a single point of failure.
(5) The more valuable your data becomes, it also becomes a more valuable target.
(6) Goes agains usual confidentiality principles, including "need to know"
and "least privilege".
(7)Either contradicts legal requirements for confidentiality or makesgoogle legally liable for safekeeping everyone's data against anydisclosure risk (including disclosure that is legally mandated, whichis always a risk to comply with because any order is potentiallydisputable).
Paul Kedrosky just posted the original PPT file with the notes included.
Why the google paranoia and "evil" witch-hunt? Storing files on thenet IS the future. Don't store stuff online if you don't want to, butdon't imagine it won't happen and don't say it's a bad thing thatshould be stopped.
Hi, Greg -
I did this same copy-and-post of the proof when Ifound Kaiser Permanente System Diagrams online. Though they had been ona public web site for up to five years and Kaiser had unclean hands inretaliating against someone who blew the whistle on them, Kaiser suedme. Furthermore, a California State agency backed them up and issued apublic order against me: though this agency had no jurisdiction overme, they justified their actions because they thought I might be doingsomething dangerous on the Internet.
When I try to tell peoplewhat happened, all they see is some disgruntled person who should quitcomplaining and move on. I can't seem to get anyone to understand thatwhat I did was common Internet activity (note you just did it), and mycase has great ramifications for anyone operating under the assumptionpublicly posted web documents are in the public domain. Because of mycase, corporations now have the means to perform a shakedown (the courtsystem is burden in itself) on anyone who engages in this sort ofInternet whistleblowing.
During the months I sought help forthis, I was turned down by Stanford Cyberlaw, the EFF, and the ACLU. Noone cared about my situation, yet people continue to act as if theInternet could still be assumed to be public domain. I tried to pointthis out to John of AMERICAblog when he did his whistleblower victorylap over the cellphone records scandal, just as I'm trying to point itout again here to you.
The U.S. is now acting as a tyranny wherethey see people as weak defendants (me). Please don't assume that thetargets will always be the weak defendants. The precedents willeventually be used against all citizens, and the effect on free speechand public participation will be chilling indeed.
Nice coverage on this matter,Greg.
I was thinking around sixmonths back , that why Google is not delving into Chat service andGDump(my abbreviation).And now I see Google launching its Chat,that'staking a toll on other chatting service.About GDump, I thought ofsomething like a big dumping storage space provided by google ,whereusers can dump the things they want to share with others and we canhave some categorization on them based on regions or types of dumpedmaterials.And now I am hearing about this online storage space byGoogle .Quite excited!.Waiting to see what it will be like.
I love Google, and all that they are doing, I look forward to whatbecomes of thie especially after all this publicity that they aregetting about this.
With all the ruckus raised by this, I've yet to see one shred ofinfo on where the original ppt posted by Kedrosky came from, or if it'slegitimate.
Greg Linden retrieved partial comments from hisGoogle Desktop cache, but not the original file. Then Derrickmysteriously posted all the comments, but didn't post the original. NowKedrosky posts what is supposed to be the original but with noexplanation of where it came from.
It's a little suspicious thatthe zip file Kedrosky posted contains a ppt doc dated 3/6/06 at 11:15PM, while the Analyst Day was held on back on 3/2/06. Did someonechange the document after the Analyst Day? Did someone copy thecomments from Derrick's site into the redacted slide deck?
What gives?
MB, Google filed a 8-k with the SEC acknowledging that they accidentally published these notes.
Sorry, no big conspiracy here.
Sorry if I sounded like a crackpot conspiracy theorist. I'm notdisputing that Google published the ppt notes accidentally, or thatyour Google Desktop cached some of the notes.
I was pointing outthat there's not enough information to determine if the ppt publishedby Kedrosky's is authentic. He doesn't say where he got it, and thefile date is four days after the Analyst Day. For all the drama (GoogleDesktop archives, SEC filings), it would be nice to have some reason totrust the authenticity of the file.
Paul said today(http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2006/03/08/the_google_ppts.html)that he personally downloaded the file, and may have changed themodified date of the file. That's good enough for me.
Is GDrive a P2P Storage Application?
Has anyone heard of "Pond" beofre?
Are these two systems the same in nature?
ha there using microsoft software to present there ish...lolmicrosoft owns the world and google is no competition. also..with thisleaked, microsoft now has the upper edge with this new user storagething and they can improve on googles way of things...look out google,the new live is coming strong and hard!
I would not trust Google at all or for that matter any company withsuch a vast amount of personal information. Google has been known totrack people, it would not stop there. This sounds like they are movinginto P2P?
I find it quite funny that many people distrust any Governmentinstitution with personal information and yet they are readily willingto hand over their desktop and content to some private institution whois much less contrained by law and do as they please with theinformation ...and with an ultimate goal of simply making money.
Itshould also be noted that any corporate Goliath can be brought down bysimple events so read the fine print. If gdrive is where you will storeyour cherished data then you may be interested to know what wouldhappen to that data should the company ever become insolvent. Nothingis "free" and there is a price to pay for any service ...pay me now orlater is the only difference.
Sorry folks, gdrive is no-go fromthe get-go for me. As disk drives become less costly by the day, I willand continue store my data at home on a couple external drives...simple and effective.
Installing a secure remote desk-top toaccess my data from anywhere allows me the freedom which gdrivesuggests. Add to this that my important data is encrypted in case myremote desktop ever gets compromised.
All Microsoft needs to do,for the average home user, is simplify the above process to install andsupport remote desktop, storage device add-ons and data encryption.
Iremember when the server was the king and I didn't like it and neitherdid my colleagues ...it was called the "mainframe". More power to thedesktop baby!!!
It's hard to trust a public company who has the vast amount ofinformation like google does. Google may have more information than thegovernment.
Yes, i agree. Google has so much information, that it can become new"big brother" - think it`s normal to make some rules for this monster...
Back-up needs to be more than just make an extra encrypted copy toleave at the house! Sure, you can remote into your desktop fromanywhere in the world but what would you do if you were remoted intoyour PC and your house burned down? Where would your data be then?Also, what makes you think the media you are using to copy/save yourdata is going to be available in 10 or 20 years? You can't findanything to translate music from an 8-track tape and VHSs are on theirway out now. In digital format the playback media isn't a concern andyou are always up to date!
Searching through the web, I found the answer to the mistery of Google Lighthouse:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Google/?p=254
It seems like it was the codename for Google Picasa Web Albums...
well, that's thinking big
well hats off google
Is it just me, or do all of these anti-google kook comments seem so astroturfed?
Google can't shoot anybody, so I think any worries are overstated.They're trying to make a buck, not take over the world. Now if they'reselling private data to the Federal Government, then that IS a problem.
Well, beyond comments and doubts, this is gonna happen.
Why?,Well, world's power has get through 3 phases, when the one with mostLands were the most powerfull, then when the one with most capitalwhere the most powerfull and now since 1970 so far, when moreINFORMATION you have more powerfull you are.
Fist it all, internetit's a dangerous for any goverment, because it (actually) permits anykind of personal's opinions or argumet at your reach, that can differswith what goverments wants us to believe or accept as true.
This isgonna be solutionated in few time with the "internet privatization"that has been put in march for all the "pipes" companies like AT&T,Cysco, Motorola, etc.
This company want to price more the more you use their pipes, like for examples, youtube.
Thismean that you get package for the kind of information you want. Besidesthat other programas like p2p will be elimenated or reduce to the lowervelocitys conections, say nothing about webs with "no correct"material, like page with political information that they find"incorrect" for the people.
That mean the internet's free expretion extermination. So, you'll hear what they want you to hear. Exactly like tv or radio.
Andfinally the information's centralization where make easier all this,and ofcourse, google bring government access to all your webinformation, but not, porn information, the really information like:are you believer of such belief, are you a "terrorist", do you have ormanage information that can be dangerous for "national security".
Thestupid media news about google dening information to goverment is justa news for the people believe that google is gonna a be a guardian ofyou information more important and confidential, that you can trust it.
Well, you can not avoid it , but you can make money with all this.An example, buy stocks from companies that creats the next generationmassive storge information "disks", make a "short sell" of stocks ofcompanies that makes and dedicates to PCs.
This can sound paranoic, but well, is like world moves and always moves.
These comments have been invaluable to me as is this whole site. I thank you for your comment.