New Statesman - Latin America: the attack on ...

Latin America: the attack on democracy
John Pilger
About the writer

John Pilger, renowned investigative journalist and documentary film-maker, is one of only two to have twice won British journalism's top award; his documentaries have won academy awards in both the UK and the US. In a New Statesman survey of the 50 heroes of our time, Pilger came fourth behind Aung San Suu Kyi and Nelson Mandela. "John Pilger," wrote Harold Pinter, "unearths, with steely attention facts, the filthy truth. I salute him."
Published 24 April 2008
John Pilger argues that an unreported war is being waged by the US to restore power to the privileged classes at the expense of the poor

 
Beyond the sound and fury of its conquest of Iraq and campaign against Iran, the world's dominant power is waging a largely unreported war on another continent - Latin America. Using proxies, Washington aims to restore and reinforce the political control of a privileged group calling itself middle-class, to shift the responsibility for massacres and drug trafficking away from the psychotic regime in Colombia and its mafiosi, and to extinguish hopes raised among Latin America's impoverished majority by the reform governments of Venezuela, Ecuador and Bolivia.
In Colombia, the main battleground, the class nature of the war is distorted by the guerrillas of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, known as the Farc, whose own resort to kidnapping and the drugs trade has provided an instrument with which to smear those who have distinguished Latin America's epic history of rebellion by opposing the proto-fascism of George W Bush's regime. "You don't fight terror with terror," said President Hugo Chávez as US warplanes bombed to death thousands of civilians in Afghanistan following the 11 September 2001 attacks. Thereafter, he was a marked man. Yet, as every poll has shown, he spoke for the great majority of human beings who have grasped that the "war on terror" is a crusade of domination. Almost alone among national leaders standing up to Bush, Chávez was declared an enemy and his plans for a functioning social democracy independent of the United States a threat to Washington's grip on Latin America. "Even worse," wrote the Latin America specialist James Petras, "Chávez's nationalist policies represented an alternative in Latin America at a time (2000-2003) when mass insurrections, popular uprisings and the collapse of pro-US client rulers (Argentina, Ecuador and Bolivia) were constant front-page news."
It is impossible to underestimate the threat of this alternative as perceived by the "middle classes" in countries which have an abundance of privilege and poverty. In Venezuela, their "grotesque fantasies of being ruled by a 'brutal communist dictator'", to quote Petras, are reminiscent of the paranoia of the white population that backed South Africa's apartheid regime. Like in South Africa, racism in Venezuela is rampant, with the poor ignored, despised or patronised, and a Caracas shock jock allowed casually to dismiss Chávez, who is of mixed race, as a "monkey". This fatuous venom has come not only from the super-rich behind their walls in suburbs called Country Club, but from the pretenders to their ranks in middle-level management, journalism, public relations, the arts, education and the other professions, who identify vicariously with all things American. Journalists in broadcasting and the press have played a crucial role - acknowledged by one of the generals and bankers who tried unsuccessfully to overthrow Chávez in 2002. "We couldn't have done it without them," he said. "The media were our secret weapon."
Many of these people regard themselves as liberals, and have the ear of foreign journalists who like to describe themselves as being "on the left". This is not surprising. When Chávez was first elected in 1998, Venezuela was not an archetypical Latin American tyranny, but a liberal democracy with certain freedoms, run by and for its elite, which had plundered the oil revenue and let crumbs fall to the invisible millions in the barrios. A pact between the two main parties, known as puntofijismo, resembled the convergence of new Labour and the Tories in Britain and Republicans and Democrats in the US. For them, the idea of popular sovereignty was anathema, and still is.
Take higher education. At the taxpayer-funded elite "public" Venezuelan Central University, more than 90 per cent of the students come from the upper and "middle" classes. These and other elite students have been infiltrated by CIA-linked groups and, in defending their privilege, have been lauded by foreign liberals.
With Colombia as its front line, the war on democracy in Latin America has Chávez as its main target. It is not difficult to understand why. One of Chávez's first acts was to revitalise the oil producers' organisation Opec and force the oil price to record levels. At the same time he reduced the price of oil for the poorest countries in the Caribbean region and central America, and used Venezuela's new wealth to pay off debt, notably Argentina's, and, in effect, expelled the International Monetary Fund from a continent over which it once ruled. He has cut poverty by half - while GDP has risen dramatically. Above all, he gave poor people the confidence to believe that their lives would improve.
The irony is that, unlike Fidel Castro in Cuba, he presented no real threat to the well-off, who have grown richer under his presidency. What he has demonstrated is that a social democracy can prosper and reach out to its poor with genuine welfare, and without the extremes of "neo liberalism" - a decidedly unradical notion once embraced by the British Labour Party. Those ordinary Vene zuelans who abstained during last year's constitutional referendum were protesting that a "moderate" social democracy was not enough while the bureaucrats remained corrupt and the sewers overflowed.
Across the border in Colombia, the US has made Venezuela's neighbour the Israel of Latin America. Under "Plan Colombia", more than $6bn in arms, planes, special forces, mercenaries and logistics have been showered on some of the most murderous people on earth: the inheritors of Pinochet's Chile and the other juntas that terrorised Latin America for a generation, their various gestapos trained at the School of the Americas in Georgia. "We not only taught them how to torture," a former American trainer told me, "we taught them how to kill, murder, eliminate." That remains true of Colombia, where government-inspired mass terror has been documented by Amnesty, Human Rights Watch and many others. In a study of 31,656 extrajudicial killings and forced disappearances between 1996 and 2006, the Colombian Commission of Jurists found that 46 per cent had been murdered by right-wing death squads and 14 per cent by Farc guerrillas. The para militaries were responsible for most of the three million victims of internal displacement. This misery is a product of Plan Colombia's pseudo "war on drugs", whose real purpose has been to eliminate the Farc. To that goal has now been added a war of attrition on the new popular democracies, especially Venezuela.
US special forces "advise" the Colombian military to cross the border into Venezuela and murder and kidnap its citizens and infiltrate paramilitaries, and so test the loyalty of the Venezuelan armed forces. The model is the CIA-run Contra campaign in Honduras in the 1980s that brought down the reformist government in Nicaragua. The defeat of the Farc is now seen as a prelude to an all-out attack on Venezuela if the Vene zuelan elite - reinvigorated by its narrow referendum victory last year - broadens its base in state and local government elections in November.
America's man and Colombia's Pinochet is President Álvaro Uribe. In 1991, a declassified report by the US Defence Intelligence Agency revealed the then Senator Uribe as having "worked for the Medellín Cartel" as a "close personal friend" of the cartel's drugs baron, Pablo Escobar. To date, 62 of his political allies have been investigated for close collaboration with paramilitaries. A feature of his rule has been the fate of journalists who have illuminated his shadows. Last year, four leading journalists received death threats after criticising Uribe. Since 2002, at least 31 journalists have been assassinated in Colombia. Uribe's other habit is smearing trade unions and human rights workers as "collaborators with the Farc". This marks them. Colombia's death squads, wrote Jenny Pearce, author of the acclaimed Under the Eagle: US Intervention in Central America and the Caribbean (1982), "are increasingly active, confident that the president has been so successful in rallying the country against the Farc that little attention will shift to their atrocities".
Uribe was personally championed by Tony Blair, reflecting Britain's long-standing, mostly secret role in Latin America. "Counter-insurgency assistance" to the Colombian military, up to its neck in death-squad alliances, includes training by the SAS of units such as the High Mountain Battalions, condemned repeatedly for atrocities. On 8 March, Colombian officers were invited by the Foreign Office to a "counter-insurgency seminar" at the Wilton Park conference centre in southern England. Rarely has the Foreign Office so brazenly paraded the killers it mentors.
The western media's role follows earlier models, such as the campaigns that cleared the way for the dismemberment of Yugoslavia and the credibility given to lies about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. The softening-up for an attack on Venezuela is well under way, with the repetition of similar lies and smears.
Cocaine trail
 
On 3 February, the Observer devoted two pages to claims that Chávez was colluding in the Colombian drugs trade. Similarly to the paper's notorious bogus scares linking Saddam Hussein to al-Qaeda, the Observer's headline read, "Revealed: Chávez role in cocaine trail to Europe". Allegations were unsubstantiated; hearsay uncorroborated. No source was identified. Indeed, the reporter, clearly trying to cover himself, wrote: "No source I spoke to accused Chávez himself of having a direct role in Colombia's giant drug trafficking business."
In fact, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime has reported that Venezuela is fully participating in international anti-drugs programmes and in 2005 seized the third-highest amount of cocaine in the world. Even the Foreign Office minister Kim Howells has referred to "Venezuela's tre mendous co-operation".
The drugs smear has recently been reinforced with reports that Chávez has an "increasingly public alliance [with] the Farc" (see "Dangerous liaisons", New Statesman, 14 April). Again, there is "no evidence", says the secretary general of the Organisation of American States. At Uribe's request, and backed by the French government, Chávez played a mediating role in seeking the release of hostages held by the Farc. On 1 March, the negotiations were betrayed by Uribe who, with US logistical assistance, fired missiles at a camp in Ecuador, killing Raú Reyes, the Farc's highest-level negotiator. An "email" recovered from Reyes's laptop is said by the Colombian military to show that the Farc has received $300m from Chávez. The allegation is fake. The actual document refers only to Chávez in relation to the hostage exchange. And on 14 April, Chávez angrily criticised the Farc. "If I were a guerrilla," he said, "I wouldn't have the need to hold a woman, a man who aren't soldiers. Free the civilians!"
However, these fantasies have lethal purpose. On 10 March, the Bush administration announced that it had begun the process of placing Venezuela's popular democracy on a list of "terrorist states", along with North Korea, Syria, Cuba, Sudan and Iran, the last of which is currently awaiting attack by the world's leading terrorist state.
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76 comments from readers
nawawimohamad
24 April 2008 at 10:57
The US is a trouble maker and war monger. It will continue to be so, as long as its economy is strong, no matter who becomes president. but like all trouble makers in the past, it will eventually collapse and crumble, unfortunately only after creating havoc everywhere.
Serosch
24 April 2008 at 13:10
Hubris never goes unpunished.
xjyxjy
24 April 2008 at 16:14
Chavézismo is a contradictory phenomenon, a radical nationalist movement with solid military support - like Castroism after the revolution but without the USSR to push it towards full nationalization, or Allende's movement but with the military on board. As a petty bourgeois nationalist movement it is faced with a choice between dumping the bourgeoisie or dumping the popular masses (the proletariat and the rural and urban poor). What it can't do is build a society in its own image.
 
So far the most dramatic actions have been taken against the US-tainted bourgeoisie (oil first and foremost), leading to the coup and the threats from Colombia, as well as massive popular support. But the refusal to take the land and the media (above all) into national ownership with no delay has weakened popular support and strengthened both the bourgeoisie and the land-owners who are ready to provide a fifth column for US-Colombian intervention.
 
In the face of these threats, and given the weakness so far of the backing from sympathetic but hogtied countries with "left-leaning" governments, the Chávez regime will need to decide pretty soon which of the great classes of society to hitch its waggon to, cos if it doesn't, it will be ground to a pulp between them (and probably by the bourgeoisie and imperialism.
 
It's a transitional regime and the sooner it realizes this in practice, the better!
antileft
24 April 2008 at 16:48
"Allegations were unsubstantiated; hearsay uncorroborated. No source was identified."
An interesting quote here from Pilger. Also from Pilger:
"Take higher education. At the taxpayer-funded elite "public" Venezuelan Central University, more than 90 per cent of the students come from the upper and "middle" classes. These and other elite students have been infiltrated by CIA-linked groups and, in defending their privilege, have been lauded by foreign liberals."
And the source? Whoops, forgot to mention it- a bit like the observer. (I love the term "elite students", by the way. Very objective, classy, serious journalism here.)
"He has cut poverty by half."
Source of this highly dubious fact? Whoops... Forgot to mention that one too (the source is most probably the government or someone quoting the government, because most Venezuelans wouldnt believe it).
"US special forces "advise" the Colombian military to cross the border into Venezuela and murder and kidnap its citizens and infiltrate paramilitaries, and so test the loyalty of the Venezuelan armed forces."
Source of this very serious allegation which is important enough to warrant an entire article in itself? Nevermind... A bit hypocritical, dont you think, Pilger?
This article is the reason the verb "to pilger" exists (see wikipedia). Keep pilgering, pilger.
JosephConrad
24 April 2008 at 19:57
The US, through the CIA, has destabilized nearly every duely elected government in Central & S. America, Africa & Central Asia.
 
In the post-WWII era, the US/CIA has killed or overthrown 37 duely elected leaders of Central & S. America. In Africa as in Latin America, the US/CIA has destabilized, armed and/or overthrown elected governments in EVERY NATION that produces OIL/GAS.
 
In every nation of the World with Natural Resources the US WANTS, the CIA has ORGANIZED, TRAINED, ARMED & FINANCED
the overthrow & DEATH of elected national leaders. The latest example of this PRIMATIVE
behavior is BOLIVIA where the CIA & USAID are funneling funds to the MESTIZOS to overthrow th Indiginous Leadership & PRIVATIZE the OIL & GAS.
 
What is COMMON about the US role in South & Central America, Africa, the Middle East & Central Asia is the use of the CIA in trying to STEAL their OIL/GAS, OVERTHROW their existing or elected government or - failing that, fomenting CHAOS ('Sectarian Violence').
 
It's high time Americans forced their leaders to cease being the main TERRORIST NATION in the world and devote themselves to restoring America's greatness!
24 April 2008 at 20:17
Yes, and while you're there read the quote from Noam Chomskey:
 
"The reason why journalists have invented the terms 'to pilger' and 'pilgerise' is because, when faced with the uncomfortable facts about the consequences of U.S foreign policy that Pilger presents, "ridicule [is] the only response they are capable of".
 
Say's it all really.
24 April 2008 at 20:19
Yes, and while you're there read the quote from Noam Chomskey:
 
"The reason why journalists/commentators have invented the terms 'to pilger' and 'pilgerise' is because, when faced with the uncomfortable facts about the consequences of U.S foreign policy that Pilger presents, ridicule [is] the only response they are capable of".
 
Says it all really.
alasdair macvarish
24 April 2008 at 20:21
I have spent months in Venezuela in each of the past 4 years. I was dismayed to meet such an irresponsible middle-class who regarded oil-wealth as theirs exclusively to spend in Miami shopping malls. In the face of visual evidence of callous neglect of the poor majority, they would tell blatant lies of adequate educational and health provision during the pre-Chavist period. School-teachers I met regretted that recent reforms had led to a shortage of local teenagers to employ on their land ; replaced by young Colombians. Over the 4 years could see evidence of improvement.
The middle-class have tried a coup, failed in a strike and a recall referendum. They may have to revert to democracy.
writeon
24 April 2008 at 20:41
Venezuela needs to prepare itself for an attempt by the United States and its allies to roll back the 'reforms' initiated by Chavez. Venezuela's oil reserves are both a blessing and a curse. Potentially they are a source of wealth that could transform Venezuela, at the same time they are a tempting prize too obvious to ignore.
 
The United States will try to topple the regime in Venezuela one way or another, somehow the reform movement in Latin America has to be pushed back and undermined.
 
But how will Venezuela defend itself against 'regime change' and eventual invasion? Turn the country into an armed camp and give weapons as training to the masses? The problem is that doing this may play into the hands of the Americans and their allies in Venezuela. The more Chavez does to defend his country the easier it becomes to portray him as a dictator. And this is a dilema faced by not only Venezuela. Either one is a loyal vassal state paying tribute, or one independent and risks being defined as an enemy of the empire and a barbarian, and one knows what happens to them!
 
Venezuela, and the other reformist movements in South America, can thank their stars that the debacle in Afghanistan and Iraq is draining so much strength from the United States that dealing with them will simply have to wait until a later date.
Ciclista
24 April 2008 at 21:49
"Those ordinary Vene zuelans who abstained during last year's constitutional referendum were protesting that a "moderate" social democracy was not enough while the bureaucrats remained corrupt and the sewers overflowed."
 
That's news to me. I wonder if John spoke to them, all 3 million or so that abstained?
 
As I understand it, they weren't protesting at all (there were no protests), they were abstaining for whatever reason they personally held.
 
The most likely reason is that the huge and complicated raft of proposed amendments to the constitution were not properly explained to the electorate. Also, it was not permitted to vote on individual measures, so it was a "take it or leave it" ballot.
 
Many of Chavez's own supporters wisely chose to sit it out, probably because it represented too much of a radical shift to towards socialist authoritarianism. I cannot imagine that many would have abstained out of "protest" that the amendments did not go far enough. Only the hardliners and extremists, and they would surely have approved the new constitution whilst hoping for more extreme measures in the future.
arepaman
24 April 2008 at 23:38
This article seems to be the product of a closed mind - not an investigative journalist willing to be persuaded by the facts.
 
Among other things, Pilger would do well to check out the evidence of the Venezuelan armed forces' involvement in the drug trade compiled by the Colombian newsmagazine Semana.
 
The piece would also benefit from an attempt to explain why Uribe is such an astonishingly popular figure (much more so than Chávez). As a Colombian resident, my view is that you cannot reduce his support to paramilitary, media or US backing.
 
The Left does itself no favours by lauding such a compromised figure as Chávez (and before him Castro).
antileft
25 April 2008 at 07:22
"Yes, and while you're there read the quote from Noam Chomskey:
"The reason why journalists/commentators have invented the terms 'to pilger' and 'pilgerise' is because, when faced with the uncomfortable facts about the consequences of U.S foreign policy that Pilger presents, ridicule [is] the only response they are capable of".
Says it all really."
 
But one second, I didnt simply "ridicule" Pilger, I illustrated quite clearly how he doesnt even live up to his own standards! Hey, if thats simply "ridicule", then I think it's quite effective, as it shows what a low-level, unprofessional journalist he is. No serious journalist would write a long article full of unsubstantiated hearsay without sources, and then, in the same article, criticise another publication for doing the same thing! It just isnt what serious journalists do: It's pilgering.
antileft
25 April 2008 at 07:37
I do wish that people like pilger and some of his idiotic above fans would accept the fact that communism is a bad idea and should be forgotten. Hey, I know its fun to relive the childish fantasies of your youth, but dont support the subjecting of a country of poor people to that crap. Yup, communism doesnt work, we re not all equal, and the state is a terribly inefficient thing. Get over it and join the current century.
explodingbadger
25 April 2008 at 08:52
@antileft Who mentioned communism ? Only you.
 
Anyway right now capitalism isn't doing so great either especially with its greatest exponent involved in an imperialist and murderous crusade in the middle east. Not to mention the financial system in turmoil and who knows where that will end.
 
Also your childish comments about the quality of of Pilgers journalism doesn't really prove any point. If you really want to prove something then address the article.
antileft
25 April 2008 at 08:59
"If you really want to prove something then address the article."
Erm did you not read my first post? I showed in quite a clear way how the article is flawed.
"Who mentioned communism ? Only you."
Oh come on now! It's an article about chavez! He's about as communist as it gets. Venezuela is now worse for business than even cuba is according to this:
http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displays...
Hell, I know commies dont like the term "communism" anymore, as it sounds as ridiculous, but you really should call it what it is.
robromford
25 April 2008 at 16:23
Regarding South America. There is so very little reported about it. I live in Saudi Arabia and it's India this, China that. They are into capitalism so it's ok to 'big them up'. However, as we all know the BBC is a propaganda machine which is pro - USA. God knows what the US is up to. It's really shameful they allow such poverty on their door step. Over consumption must come to an end yet mainstream journalism only reports the black and white. Consume, consume, consume. At least this reporter is putting a different angle across.
JimmyJames
25 April 2008 at 22:58
It is true that the majority who are poor and brown skinned are treated as non-humans by the lighter-skinned wealthier minority. That minority suffers from an identity crisis, one foot in Miami the other in Venezuela, ready to vacate at short notice to their second homes in Florida should things not go their way in Venezuela. But when on holiday in Florida, they are surprised to find they no longer enjoy the special status back home. Even worse, white Americans might well confuse them with the darker despised fellow Venezuelas (who happen to have moved to Florida in search of work)
phantom
25 April 2008 at 23:56
Apart from everything written by John Pilger, if you only ever read 1 book in your entire life then make sure you read "Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein - then if you do, everything Mr Pilger has written on American imperialism makes perfect sense!
john61
26 April 2008 at 01:30
i completely agree with what john pilger says about the gangster columbia/us/uk collusion. excepet that these criminals HAVE NO IDEA of what kind of historical trap the're walking into. the tide of history has turned on these fascists are becoming increasingly paranoid. the house of cards is falling on top of these criminals. when the dust finally settles they will be totally buried under the ruble of their own making.
nando
26 April 2008 at 03:56
take your head off your but antileft. you probably think
Bush is the meshia, the anointed one. when are you people ever gong to learn that other cointries do not
hate the USA because of our liberties or because ( we seem to think we are the most god loving people in the word) but because of the barbarities and evil policies the us is always perpetrating against all other poor countries.
jubjub59
26 April 2008 at 07:31
What a ridiculous, venom laden, simplistic polemic this is. Mr Pilger either doesn't know or has deliberately ignored the complex and tortured history of Colombia. Talk about smearing an entire country. I urge any reader to read up on it before forming an opinion based on this. For example, one would find out that Alvaro Uribe has had genuine, consistent and strong support since 2002 thanks mainly to his actions against the FARC. What is he supposed to do? Ignore the will of the people? Colombians aren't stupid. They know his history. This article is EXACTLY the sort of thing that results in eponymous verbs being invented. How proud Mr Pilger must be.
Publius
26 April 2008 at 09:08
*YAWN*
 
Doesn't Johnny ever get bored writing this pinko drivel?
 
Note to the editor: the "about the author" blurb is quite funny. However, I'm left wondering what Alan Ayckbourn thinks of Mr. Pilger. Or Tom Stoppard?
writeon
26 April 2008 at 21:05
I don't really get this anti-Pilger stuff at all. One would think he was some extremist Leftist, when he's actually an old-school social-democrat. Pilger's politics seem to have remained pretty constant over the last thiry odd years, whilst the world around him, at least in the media, has veered to the right.
 
The irony is when I was a teenager most of us in the anarchist circles I moved in and out of thought that Pilger was right-wing, his heart was in the right place but he didn't really understand the true nature of the sham that was Western 'democracy'. We live in a bourgeois dictatorship. We had contempt for Pilger because he was a reformer and not a revolutionary; yet here, there are people who regard moderate John as a pinko extremist, my how times change!
nando
26 April 2008 at 22:19
reply to jubjub59
do not tell me you donot know aof all the assesinations of the union members going on for years in colombia. the goverment of uribe is just turning a bling eye or maybe helping these criminals
hired by theses multinational companies. What about all this paramilitary groups thy are always helped in one way or the other by the uribe gavernment in oen way or the other even his relatvives are involved with the murderous paramilitary right groups that are blame for the majority of assasinations of civilians in
colombia uribe is bush puppet.colombians must wake up.bush or the usa is notgoing to be there for ever handing theme six or seveen billions a year in or weapons they are going to have a rude awakenning when their only allie is not gong to be able to help them. you moron!
jubjub59
27 April 2008 at 04:48
reply to nando:
 
A moron am I? Nice. Amazing how bold people can be on an anonymous blog. Your opinion of me might be credible if it was actually based on what I wrote. I did not try and defend Uribe or the paramilitaries. Suggesting that I am unaware of the problems you listed is also ridiculous. What do you think the phrase ‘complex and tortured history of Colombia’ refers to? The problem (amongst others) I had with Mr Pilger’s article is his use of the words ‘psychotic’ and ‘murderous’ to describe the Colombian regime. Now, I think we can agree that Uribe et al have not personally murdered anyone. If you want to excoriate them they are more accurately described as being responsible for these deaths. Bad enough but Pilger doesn’t make this distinction. It might seem like semantics but it is important. It is important because the Colombian people are responsible for putting this regime in power in elections that have been deemed free and fair. A country gets the government it deserves. So, if the Uribe regime is psychotic and murderous and Colombians are responsible for putting it in power, this implication is that the majority of Colombians are also psychotic and murderous or at least complicit. This is quite obviously ridiculous and possibly racist. There is no reason to believe that Colombians on the whole don’t aspire to peace and prosperity like anyone else. They see Uribe, despite his flaws, as the one who can help the country achieve this aspiration. Uribe did not start the violence. Pilger doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge this, hence my conclusion that he doesn’t know or has deliberately ignored Colombia’s history.
You assert that Colombians should ‘wake up’, implying that they don’t know what is going on. Are you trying to tell me that they don’t know about those things you listed like union killings, paramilitary crimes and government connection / complicity? This is both patently absurd and disrespectful. Much like the article above.
fairplay
27 April 2008 at 12:13
i like pilger's commitment to what he feels is right, not what he feels he has to write to suit other people. i have read his books and this article follows the same path. when is enough enough? how much power and money do the people at the top need? if it is communist to have a view that there is more than enough of everything to go around if used correctly then i must be one. i am sick to death of american neocon bile, illegal wars wasting innocent lives for profit and financial charlatans stripping everybody bare whilst being backed by the washington regime. it is time the people of america started educating themselves through channels other than the MSM so they can see what their government is actually doing in their name. people come first, not bank accounts. bravo mr chavez
antileft
27 April 2008 at 17:31
heh heh hey nando, you really are a twit armchair leftie just like so many of the above.
"do not tell me you donot know aof all the assesinations of the union members going on for years in colombia. the goverment of uribe is just turning a bling eye or maybe helping these criminals hired by theses multinational companies."
 
Do you not know that union members have a lower murder rate than the rest of the country? And do you not know that the murder rate has halved since uribe came to power? Dumbass, if you dont know the facts, do something else.
antileft
27 April 2008 at 17:33
"if it is communist to have a view that there is more than enough of everything to go around if used correctly then i must be one."
Then please explain: how are we all equal when some of us work harder than others?
antileft
27 April 2008 at 17:37
Oh, and while youre at it, explain to me why anyone would work hard when everything they own will always belong to the state and they wont gain anything more for doing so.
fairplay
27 April 2008 at 19:02
its a tongue in cheek comment. i work for myself mate. i believe i should make a profit. i also know i was given an education that a lot of people dont get, including being guided by my family along the right lines.
but not everyones as lucky. people are born into poverty and struggle to get out of it. i believe in the national health system for example. and i believe the states natural resources should be used for the benefit of the state and its people. not private individuals. look at america. the health system etc. its all about the bottom line. when did it become right to stop caring about our fellow men? and russia. billionaires popping up everywhere from oil and gas while most of the population live on the poverty line.
 
long live hugo chavez. for once someone stands up to the bullying USA
knave
27 April 2008 at 19:35
"Do you not know that union members have a lower murder rate than the rest of the country? And do you not know that the murder rate has halved since uribe came to power? Dumbass, if you dont know the facts, do something else."
The number of people killed hasn't . Just that state sponsored murder is not counted.
Misuse of stats again by NS's own spokesman for right wing para military armrchair thug.
antileft
28 April 2008 at 03:24
Oh come on knave- you just dont know what youre talking about, do you? Every colombian will tell you that the murder rate has plummeted, and safety has massively increased. Before Uribe, you couldnt even go from Bogota to Medellin without a serious risk. Just walking around outside the city centres was hellishly dangerous. Now, you can travel between most small towns. The improvement in safety is obvous. But then, you dont even know where medellin is, do you? Let alone the real situation on the ground. Youre just a damn armchair leftie who believes the tripe above. You just think this is all propaganda because a leftie who "wasnt left wing enough" said it was the case in the NS. Knave, you have no idea. Do something else.
 
"long live hugo chavez."
Well then explain- now that venezuela's only export is worth over 100 dollars a barrel, why is it virtually impossible to buy bread, milk, meat, or basic staples? Doesnt this complete distruction of the economy bother you?
antileft
28 April 2008 at 03:31
Besides- you should know that inequality has increased under chavez. Just drive through caracas and youll see it- so many expensive cars that its virtually impossible to drive, and more child beggars than ever before whereever you walk.
Or just read this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6186990.stm
knave
28 April 2008 at 07:59
Antileft you are using hearsay not facts and the opinions of others.
Think for yourself young man.
I know that your relatives enjoyed killing a few peasants and working them to death. But those days are now over. No, you can still do it Columbia under Aribe.
Now back to straight jacket
antileft
28 April 2008 at 08:53
"Antileft you are using hearsay not facts and the opinions of others."
No, knave, youre using hearsay and the opinions of others. It's you who gets all your information from magazines and the internet. Im using my own experiences living and working in Colombia and Venezuela. How, may I ask, could you possibly have more first hand experience of the situation than me? You havent even been to latin america, have you? I bet you havent even been to the third world. Youre just an armchair leftie living in a rich capitalist country, enjoying your country's success while moaning about it online. Study a little about the situation before you attempt to debate it, or better yet do something else, preferably something less intellectually challenging.
Cybertiger
28 April 2008 at 10:15
"How, may I ask, could you possibly have more first hand experience of the situation than me? You havent even been to latin america, have you? I bet you havent even been to the third world."
 
Typical nonsense from Harryantileft. Yet again, I can only stand back and marvel at the sheer arrogance of the man, particularly when he has absolutely nothing to be arrogant about.
antileft
28 April 2008 at 10:23
Yes, you should "stand back", because, as Ive shown countless times with you Cybertiger, youre clearly not bright enough to debate my points. Better yet- you could try yahoo chat. It's less intellectually challenging. Take Knave here with you.
fairplay
28 April 2008 at 13:14
hey AL, start getting your news from more credible sources that dont have an agenda. you have been sucked in by the mass propoganda machine that is the MSM. probably a pampered spoilt little brat who has never experienced hard times like many people in the 3rd world. you arent antileft, you are anti poor!
Cybertiger
28 April 2008 at 13:34
"probably a pampered spoilt little brat who has never experienced hard times like many people in the 3rd world"
 
Harryantileft would certainly be a the bottom of the heap in a true meritocracy.
antileft
28 April 2008 at 15:13
"hey AL, start getting your news from more credible sources that dont have an agenda."
Oh fairplay, you didnt read my posts at all, did you?! Now you just look like an idiot and a hypocrit. I'll repeat: I said that I got my information from living and working in colombia and venezuela. Yes fairplay, I got my information from the source- places where you wouldnt even have the guts to leave the hotel room. Now lets have fun and look at this moronic comment:
"probably a pampered spoilt little brat who has never experienced hard times like many people in the 3rd world. you arent antileft, you are anti poor!"
Now tell me: where did you get your information about colombia and venezuela? I bet its the same place as knave and cybertiger here got it- from NS and the media. Am I correct? Youve never been to Colombia or Venezuela, have you?! Youve never even been to South America. Your idea of "research" is a just quick trip to Machu Pichu. Youre just a dull little pampered armchair leftie, arent you?? Go on- admit it you hypocrit- you were just describing yourself. Go ahead- your turn- tell me what you did in South America.
Rightwing Redneck
29 April 2008 at 04:25
Antileft, despite your own personal belief system.
Your not bright, your arguments have been spoonfed to you. Its funny to read though.
fairplay
29 April 2008 at 07:08
and who were you getting your info from? what propoganda was being shoved down your neck while you were there? how many americans for example dont know whats going on 10 miles outside of their home? how many israelis havent got a clue about gaza? how many zimbabweans? sudanese? even the british. being there doesnt make you an expert my friend.
 
never been to south america-spot on. spent many years in africa and south east asia. still doesnt make me an expert on either though. i offer an opinion and it is contrary to yours. you see what you want to see, nothing else.
antileft
29 April 2008 at 07:56
"never been to south america-spot on."
There it is- an admission that youre a blatant hypocrit. You can see the problem, cant you fairplay? You just fell into your own moronic trap. Was it embarrassing? You accuse me of having "propoganda shoved down my neck", but clearly we ve both read newspapers and magazines in England (I read both left wing and right wing ones- which Ill bet is more than you do), which involve seeing the world through other people's eyes. But there are a couple of problems here, arent there?
1. You tried, embarrassingly, to mock me for getting my information from "bad sources", and 2. Im the only one that actually has any experience of the places in question. Is it embarrassing, fairplay? To be shown to be such a blatantly shameful hypocrit as that?
For your information, I taught English in both places- a job which involves no more than speaking to people all day long. I taught to the employees at the cigarette factory in the now-safer suburbs of Bogota. I taught to students, to teachers, to workers. I was also studying Spanish from some students at the university- the big (very meritocratic) public one in Bogota, which involves the same thing. I travelled extensively in both countries (and others-no, I didnt see Machu Pichu). I read the papers in both countries, from both sides, including mouthpieces from both governments. I watched Chavez' endless rambling speeches as often as I could. This helped me learn the political expressions needed for my studies.
So, tell me fairplay, out of me and you, who do you think has the most undistorted information? Go on, admit it- this hypocrit is you:
"you have been sucked in by the mass propoganda machine"
Typical hypocritical armchair leftie. Go do something less intellectually challenging.
fairplay
29 April 2008 at 11:56
read my post AL. i stated that even during my time in africa i was no expert on the situation there. i also worked there and in asia. but i can form an opinion of what i believe to be correct by reading from both sides of the argument which is what i do. and i cannot fall on the side of big business before the working classes. the fact that you say you spent so much time with the upper class over there says it all (management and university students)
 
take your blinkers off you deluded fool. no one is buying your argument.
 
"Go on, admit it- this hypocrit is you:"
 
 
by the way, hypocrite has an (e) on the end. i hope your students didnt take your english lessons too seriously as you obviously can't spell. tut tut
Gideon Polya
29 April 2008 at 22:12
Excellent article by John Pilger.
 
The most fundamental human right is the "right to life" of infants.
 
The most profound expression of democratic will is the overwhelming desire of parents, relatives and friends to see the survival in good health of not just infants they know but ALL infants in their society and indeed around the world.
 
Those who ignore, deny or obfuscate this key issue of infant mortality or who are party to sustained high infant death have parted company with decent humanity.
 
The following data taken from the latest demographic assessments of UN Population Division (see:http://esa.un.org/unpp/ ) are of "under-5 year old infant deaths per 1,000 live births" and demonstrate that Chavez and Castro are on the right humanitarian path that is also powerfully democratic in the "right to life" sense outlined above: 7 (Cuba), 8 (USA), 22 (Venezuela), 26 (Colombia), 27 (Latin America and the Caribbean), 72 (US-violated Haiti), 105 (US-occupied Iraq), and 235 (US-occupied Afghanistan).
 
Chavez and Castro should get the Nobel Peace Prize for their success in lowering infant mortality.
 
However war-making, war criminal, mass paedocides Bush, and Bush-lite Hillary Clinton and their craven military allies UK's Brown, Australia's Religious Right Rudd (R3) and Canada's Harper should face the International Criminal Court.
 
Indeed I have made a Formal Complaint to the International Criminal Court over Australia's continuing involvement in the Iraqi Genocide, the Afghan Genocide and other Genocides (see:
http://climateemergency.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html ).
 
As recently reported by the Shanghai Daily in 1-party China but NOT by racist, lying, human rights-ignoring Mainstream media in the Western Murdochracies: "The annual infant death rate in occupied Afghanistan (6.2 percent) is 51 times that in occupier Australia, 38 times that in occupier US and similar to the ''annual death rate" of 10.2 percent for Australian prisoners of war of the Japanese in World War II - a war crime for which key Japanese leaders were tried and hanged." (see:
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2008/200804/20080417... ).
antileft
30 April 2008 at 04:24
Oh dear fairplay, youre just embarrassing yourself further, arent you?! You must be getting desperate making fun of my spelling- cant articulate a serious debate, fairplay? That's always the way when people have their back to the wall- mock something which is completely unrelated, like your fellow idiot knave here who tried to mock my family, which he knows nothing about.
And you didnt answer my question! Not bright enough?
Here it is again:
"Out of me and you, who do you think has the most undistorted information?"
You accused me of simply believing everything the media told me. Cant you see the problem?! Youre far, far more likely to have distorted information! See how you made yourself look like an idiot?
 
There are some other moronic problems with your last post:
"and i cannot fall on the side of big business before the working classes."
This is such a dumb left wing argument: it isnt big business VS the working classes. They go together! You have to create a system which benefits both! If you simply crush big business youll end up with economic stagnation! How is someone from the working class supposed to get a job without business?! We cant all work for the state, you know. Not unless youre actually a commie idiot aswell.
 
"the fact that you say you spent so much time with the upper class over there says it all (management and university students)"
What on earth are you talking about?! Here's the list I gave you. Read it again:
"I taught to the employees at the cigarette factory in the now-safer suburbs of Bogota."
Ordinary, unskilled workers. Are they not poor enough to have a reliable opinion?!
"I taught to students"
What do you have against students, for christ's sake?! More on this in a second...
"to teachers"
Public sector workers. Not poor enough to have an opinion?
"to workers. I was also studying Spanish from some students at the university- the big (very meritocratic) public one in Bogota"
Of course, you would call students at the university "upper class", but this is because you dont even know THE FIRST THING about colombia or their education system. The main university in Bogota is a left wing haven. The paramilitaries have bombed it numerous times. Students regularly make public speeches denouncing the right (and only very rarely the left). As I said, its very meritocratic- the fees are very small and you have to work very hard to get there. To try to claim the famous university of bogota is somehow right wing just shows how damn little you know about the country. Here's a picture of the university:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DSC01982.JPG
Does it look very right wing to you?!
Now, answer my question, idiot:
"Out of me and you, who do you think has the most undistorted information?"
taghioff.info
30 April 2008 at 10:39
@antileft
 
I am not going to engage you on Venzuela, since I mostly know about Asia, but I'd like to take you up on your political analysis again:
 
" antileft
27 April 2008 at 17:33
 
"if it is communist to have a view that there is more than enough of everything to go around if used correctly then i must be one."
 
Then please explain: how are we all equal when some of us work harder than others?
antileft
27 April 2008 at 17:37
 
Oh, and while youre at it, explain to me why anyone would work hard when everything they own will always belong to the state and they wont gain anything more for doing so."
 
 
Why are we all equal? Well clearly only in some senses.
 
But we all have a right to life, wouldn't you agree? Well a right to life implies a right to livelihood, which in turn implies pretty much everything else social democrats advocate.
 
Indeed, I am guessing all you would really argue is that such life necessities (such as education and health) are best provided by the private sector. But the evidence is against you, the US has a private health model, and each citizen spend about twice as much as a UK citizen, for a broadly similar outcome.
 
Why would anyone get out of bed? To earn money, its the mixed economy, you know that thing that gives Europe a larger more productive economy and better social statistics than the US.
 
Pilger is advocating Social Democracy here. I am not sure if Chavez is clearly a social democrat, he certainly keeps winning elections, so he is not a dictator. As for his relationship with business, I must admit I know little about that.
 
But what I do know is that broadly speaking social democracy works, and it is much more popular than far-right neo-liberal ideas, even amongst the American Public.
 
Sources? Naomi Kline, Shock Doctrine, she references the opinion poll data to this effect.
taghioff.info
30 April 2008 at 10:53
Oh, I had a look to try and find comparisons between the US and European Economies. It seems that Europe does indeed have a robust model, one that is about as economically effective as the US model, but far less unpleasant in its human dimensions.
 
http://www.federalunion.org.uk/europe/060610EuropevsAmerica....
 
Interestingly, the US has a higher employment rate because pensions schemes are so bad that people have to keep working into their 60s and 70s. That is a telling picture of US "sucess".
 
I don't blame Chavez for wanting to take a more European option.
Serosch
30 April 2008 at 13:23
Is antileft on here for comedy value?
 
You can just imagine him jumping up and down, kicking the furniture about as he hammers out his "points" on the keyboard.
 
He needs to start taking his medication.
antileft
30 April 2008 at 13:46
Hello Taghioff.
"Indeed, I am guessing all you would really argue is that such life necessities (such as education and health) are best provided by the private sector."
No, not at all- for the reasons you gave. I agree health and education should be largely state-run.
 
"Pilger is advocating Social Democracy here. I am not sure if Chavez is clearly a social democrat, he certainly keeps winning elections, so he is not a dictator. As for his relationship with business, I must admit I know little about that."
 
This is where we differ. Chavez is, more or less, a communist. And Pilger is 100 percent behind people like Chavez, and indeed Castro. Chavez is moving to nationalise as much as possible. Officially, hes now nationalising such things as the cement industry, as well as parts of the media, and various other things. Not very social-democratic, is it? Hes also making life virtually impossible for business, with price controls which are far too strong, and various insane rules such as "any private business has to provide paid time to employees to study socialism." The rules related to education are also becomming pretty blatantly socialist too. Erecting Che statues, calling fidel "the air we breath", as well as the sometimes 8 hour rants on national tv doesnt help much either. All of which ignores the unofficial side of things, which is much much worse than the official side. All land that isnt owned by someone close to the government is under threat. Its likely to be taken over by groups of poor- with quiet official backing. Now, I appreciate that you might think that land is so unevenly distributed there that this is fair. But not like this. The poor come at night and take over previously functional farms at will. Sometimes they even kill the cattle and cook them there. The police quietly approve of this and ALWAYS do nothing. Journalists are being shot. "The people are angry! And they have a right to be" is the usual response. Even the private media is quietly censoring itself. The courts and all public instituations are full of cronies more than ever before. My father's wife was originally told "you cant have a passport because you voted against Chavez". She got one in the end, but it took a long time. If you try to get any job in the public sector (which is massively expanding) you have to be very pro-chavez. The people at the top would say "sometimes our supporters are too eager."
I know you dont trust the economist but:
http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displays...
According to them Venezuela is now worse for business than Cuba! I dont know if Id go that far but they certainly are pretty bad.
 
He isnt a social democrat in the European sense of the word- Lula is (who I have a great deal of respect for). But Chavez is a member of the far left- more like Castro than anyone else in the area. And as for Pilger- hed back anyone anti-american and Im surprised that you taghioff, an admittedly intelligent leftie would not see him for the extremist that he is. Come on, doesnt this article bother you? Read my first post, before I got distracted by these boneheads here- is this really good journalism?
john61
01 May 2008 at 01:58
us gringo imperialist is fast collapsing into itself. it highly corrupt core cannot prop itself up any longer. armies of "antileft" stooges are destined to crash and burn along with their puppet master in chief.
antileft
01 May 2008 at 04:43
Oh yes very poetic retoric, john. But what are you actually saying? Oh yes, just that you disagree but youre bright enough to articulate why. Nice try, though.
knave
01 May 2008 at 07:49
Antilet
I certainly don't profess to be an intellectual, very few are. Tag and writeon are probably the only ones on the site and include the columnists in that category.
You are definately not.
You have no empathy, insight or depth. Your posts are full of inconsistent bile with meaningless links.
Taking a wild guess at your background . A spoilt, middle class boy whose mummy and daddy has constently told you are a clever boy when it is obviously you are mediocre. You are in a dead end job and are frustrated hence the many posts to CIF and the NS.
As for been to SA OI have been to Brazil,Chile and argentina. I was also part of a task force in 1982 that put paid to some nasty little south american fascists , not unlike yourself.
antileft
01 May 2008 at 08:42
No kidding! Well then, it's amazing then that youre completely unable to debate my points, isnt it?!
 
"Taking a wild guess at your background . A spoilt, middle class boy whose mummy and daddy has constently told you are a clever boy when it is obviously you are mediocre. You are in a dead end job and are frustrated hence the many posts to CIF and the NS."
You mean taking "another wild guess" at my background, dont you? You already morinically suggested that my "relatives enjoyed killing a few peasants and working them to death."
A bit of a habit, is it knave, to take a wild guess at someone's family background in order to avoid admitting the fact that you arent knowledgeable enough to debate the subject in question? Ill give you a clue: No one in my family has ever been dumb enough to join the military. Who would want to do something as stupid as that?! Leave it to the uneducated boneheads, I say. Let them get their legs blown off for a few piddly little islands and to make thatcher happy while paying them a few bucks an hour. No one smart would ever do anything like that.
Serosch
01 May 2008 at 11:03
Iran has stopped trading Oil in US dollars and will now use the Yen and Euro.
 
Won't be long now before Iran is attacked.
fairplay
01 May 2008 at 15:08
AL
 
have you considered a career in comedy?
antileft
01 May 2008 at 15:16
oh great comeback, fairplay! Yes, I guess it's best to avoid embarrassing yourself by debating, or saying anything at all for that matter.
fairplay
01 May 2008 at 16:43
are you a police officer? you seem to be a bit of a facist
Cybertiger
01 May 2008 at 17:12
are you a police officer? you seem to be a bit of a facist
 
HarryAL promotes himself as a British intelligentwebdesigner, trained in Bombay, now living in Japan and in a former life taught English to the Venuzualean peasantry. If only the Japanese bit were true, he would be tucked up in bed in Tokyo just now.
knave
01 May 2008 at 19:15
"No kidding! Well then, it's amazing then that youre completely unable to debate my points, isnt it?! "
You don't debate AL you just rant and name call. You make statements that cannot be proved or disproved and then expect everybody to agree with your conclusions. If you disagree with your conclusions you label them "unintelligent" . A sure sign of a closed mind
 
 
"You mean taking "another wild guess" at my background, dont you? You already morinically "
It is a good idea if you are going to call somebody a moron, you know how to spell the word.
 
"suggested that my "relatives enjoyed killing a few peasants and working them to death."
Sorry but if the cap fits
 
"A bit of a habit, is it knave, to take a wild guess at someone's family background in order to avoid admitting the fact that you arent knowledgeable enough to debate the subject in question? Ill give you a clue: No one in my family has ever been dumb enough to join the military."
Are you sure, I,m sure Uncle Pedro hasn't put away his jackboots and electrodes
 
"Who would want to do something as stupid as that?! Leave it to the uneducated boneheads, I say. Let them get their legs blown off for a few piddly little islands and to make thatcher happy while paying them a few bucks an hour. No one smart would ever do anything like that"
You are probably right on that one. I come from a family that has served their country. From WW1 to the present day. In 1939-45 my grandad fought as a desert rat against your soulmates to his undying shame.
"
john61
02 May 2008 at 01:43
antileft,
 
this only proves your nonexistant intellect. i understand your kind is very prone for this unfortunate deficiency.
 
like it said before your kind is doomed to crash and burn.just READ history books you will see aLL empires, all of them had the same end. if you don't grasp this basic fact i suggest you find someone intelligent that can explain this to you veeeeeery sloooooowly. good luck
antileft
02 May 2008 at 03:42
"are you a police officer? you seem to be a bit of a facist"
Another great comeback! Actually, Cybertiger was right- I would have confirmed it but I was in bed.
"You don't debate AL you just rant and name call."
One second, arent you the twit who, when I mentioned that there was a serious shortage of basic goods in venezuela, you tried to poke fun at my family?! Remember that, knave? This is your usual tactic- it avoids admitting that you dont know the first thing about the subject. Like, for example, that there are major shortages of basic goods in venezuela. Of course, you wouldnt know this very basic fact, because you dont know the first thing about it.
"just READ history books you will see aLL empires, all of them had the same end"
What has America got to do with it?! Why do lefties always do that? Black and white thinking- thats what it is. "Well, if I can make america look bad, then just by default, Chavez will look good... Wont he?" When did I back America? You know, it is possible to be anti-american, and anti-Chavez. Bloody idiots.
taghioff.info
02 May 2008 at 04:22
@antileft
 
 
You are not as extreme as you make out, you basically have European centrist (centre-right) instincts.
 
OK, if 1) Chavez is as business unfriendly as you make out then that could be an issue for Venzuela. But you have to also consider 2) the consequences for South American states of the alternative, which is becoming an American Sattellite.
 
BTW I like a lot of what Pilger writes, but yes, he is now a powerful journalist, and can get away with far more sweeping statements than his junior colleagues.
 
That is what fame does for you, but it is a double edged sword. I think he would do radical causes more credit if he was more careful in his research. He also needs to reflect that using his power to make sweeping statements is also a way of showing that he has that power, so is not entirely modest of him. But hey, we all indulge ourselves to some extent, and power is notoriously hard to handle.
 
Which brings me to Chavez. I can only compare Venezuela with what I know. I will take on trust for a moment that what you and the economist focus on in terms of business unfriendliness has some substance to it. The Indian state of Kerela has an elected communist government. It is a business unfriendly place. It also has the best health and education statistics in the whole country, as well as the lowest levels of corruption.
 
I have just been there, people are incredibly honest. We lost a camera (an expensive digital SLR) and we slightly ashamed when the taxi driver came to ur hotel and returned it to us. It was worth a year's wages to him, and we felt he almost should have stolen it from us...
 
People in Kerela end up having to go abroad to find work, because business avoids that place. It is an issue. At the sam time, a lot of the ultimate goals of development - Healthy, happy, honest people with a good public culture and good quality of life, have been achieved with little in the way of economic growth.
 
If you stop and think about it, if you are clear that better lives for the majority is the overall aim of social progress and development, then doing it the Kerelan way involves a lot less environmental destruction, with comperable results to the US model (poverty and illteracy rates, and infant mortality rates at least amongst the poorest 30% of the US "community" are higher than in Kerela).
 
Now I do not like Chinese-style authrotarianism, but people did elect Chavez and continue to do so. If a business friendly model means worse social outcomes with more environmental destruction, perhaps Venzuela is prudent to choose that route.
 
Having said that, I do not understand the political climate in Venezuela, and where the line is between concern for equality and unnacceptable loss of liberty, it is not an easy question, and must be answered in relation to a particular situation.
 
But Chavez, for now, is still popular, and still rules based on elections won. So if Venezuelans choose Chazev because he offers them more substantial security than formal freedoms, can we be sure they are wrong? What can business offer them that Chavez can't - Remember 20-30% of people in the US still struggle in what is a very profound form of poverty.
taghioff.info
02 May 2008 at 04:23
I missed point 2) but my last comment addresses it and the post already became an essay.
antileft
02 May 2008 at 07:27
"You are not as extreme as you make out, you basically have European centrist (centre-right) instincts."
True, but in comparison to a lot of people who post here- centre-right is an extreme place to be!
"the consequences for South American states of the alternative, which is becoming an American Sattellite."
I dont think that's much of a danger. If Chavez was more moderate like Lula, would Venezuela be an American satellite? I doubt it. The danger is to be an enemy of America, which is Chavez' big crowd-pleaser. Chavez makes a point of visiting countries like Iran, Belarus, Syria, Iraq before the war, and practically everyone on America's hitlist. Now, where I agree that a lot of America's enemies are in many ways nicer than America's friends, why visit them? He called Bush "satan" at the UN, which although it probably is true, this satan also buys virtually all of his products. So why say it? There is no benefit from visiting Belarus. It's just a waste of money. Chavez is far too much of an extremist. Nationalising the steel industry is the latest- that isnt going to reduce poverty. Nor will politicising it. This government has a history of nationalising things and then running them into the ground. Everything he touches becomes less efficient, and gives beaurocrats more power, creating corruption. This is the typical far left mistake.
"What can business offer them that Chavez can't - Remember 20-30% of people in the US still struggle in what is a very profound form of poverty."
Well, business offers a lot that Chavez cant. Better paid jobs, consumer goods, independence from the political system to name a few. As for Americas problems- why would any country want to follow their example? As youve already said, they dont provide health coverage for all, but health still costs twice as much of GDP. Far better to follow Europe's lead.
Sorry, Taghioff, but you agree with me on some things. I dont think youd approve of what's happening in Venezuela. If this was your area of expertise I think youd be as unimpressed as I am. The problems are so blatant and the corruption is so endemic that the only ones who could approve are the boneheads above that get excited when they see fist-waving and anti-american chants. But Im still not clear on where you stand- do you agree with the gradual nationalising of industry, beyond the obvoious health and education?
antileft
02 May 2008 at 07:49
"He also needs to reflect that using his power to make sweeping statements is also a way of showing that he has that power, so is not entirely modest of him."
To get back to the article- I agree with this 100 percent. But the problem for me is that Pilger's articles are made of unresearched (or at least unproved) theories and sweeping statements without sources. Theyre all like this! He never explains where he got the information, or goes into any serious detail, and it always points to the same conclusion: America=evil. It's very bad journalism.
john61
02 May 2008 at 17:19
antilieft, aka MORON
 
first of all you are the bloody idiot. i can tell you've been admiring yourself too much by looking into your mirror.
 
What has America got to do with it????????!
 
you are a LOT more stupider than i could ever IMAGINE. America makes ITSELF look bad to ANY thinking person unless you are a brainless specimen such as yourself. CHAVEZ works for the country Not for tiny oligarchy before that PLUNDERED the country's wealth while majority lived in abject poverty WITH THE HELP OF THEIR puppetmaster, usa. ONE MORE time, your ilk is DESTINED to disappear just like the dinosaurs.. the longer you go on with your criminal sharade against the people harder their resolve of the people become to GET RID of you blood sucking leeches. YOUR TIME IS UP.
antileft
02 May 2008 at 18:08
"CHAVEZ works for the country Not for tiny oligarchy before that PLUNDERED the country's wealth while majority lived in abject poverty WITH THE HELP OF THEIR puppetmaster, usa."
Oh dear john, not much of an expert, are ya? What a wonderfully simplistic view! How can you call someone who is so incredibly and blatantly corrupt as chavez and his regime "working for the country"?! Hell, the inequality figures tell it all. But you dont know that inequality has gone up, do you? Hell, Ive seen it with my own eyes, but for you- back to the bbc.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6186990.stm
And I love this kind of thing:
"WITH THE HELP OF THEIR puppetmaster, usa."
Yes, john, the country that buys all of venezuela's exports is the one keeping them poor. Indeed. Not the buffoon who's running previously private companies into the ground while making friends with Fidel and pushing for socialism. No, it's not his fault. Let's blame bush- yes, no one likes him.
antileft
02 May 2008 at 18:27
I love all this stuff about "our time being over" by the way! Oh very dramatic! Hahaha yeah no one's ever said that one before! Im sure Chavez and Morales are going to succeed where the USSR and it's endless puppets, resources, and population failed.
Cybertiger
02 May 2008 at 18:29
"Let's blame bush- yes, no one likes him."
 
All very simplistic but then Bush is simply a simpleton, elected by simple idiots.
 
It's is very very late in the land of the rising sun. Go to bed Harry.
john61
02 May 2008 at 19:08
antileft aka the IDIOT.
 
you are soooo denst and soo stupid that it's not worth WASTING my time with idiots like you. you are quoting BBC??? the CHEARLEADER propaganda outlet??
 
let me repeat since you are soooo PATHETIC.
 
the longer you go on with your criminal sharade against the people harder their resolve of the people become to GET RID of you blood sucking leeches. YOUR TIME IS UP.
john61
02 May 2008 at 19:11
keep up your PRPAGANDA against chavez and ALL the other leaders that are noy it the pocket of your imperial puppetmaster. one more time you are desperate you know your ass is going to be kicked you pathetic IDIOT imperialist puppet ZOMBIE.
antileft
03 May 2008 at 07:55
haha very intellectual indeed.
 
"you are soooo denst and soo stupid that it's not worth WASTING my time with idiots like you. you are quoting BBC??? the CHEARLEADER propaganda outlet??"
 
Alright then john, just supposing the BBC is a "propaganda outlet"- something which is pretty unrealistic considering their mandate forces them to stay independent, but just supposing. The only reason Im posting the link is to show an ignorant bonehead something which anyone who knows the first thing about the country already knows. Inequality is going up. Why? Because corruption is out of control, making the already rich super-rich, and making life harder for anyone who doesnt have spare money or connections. At the same time inflation is out of control, which makes the poor poorer.
This is clear to anyone going back after a period away. There are far, far more expensive cars- so many so that its incredible. There are also far, far more beggars. Even more dangerous slums. Even more thieves. More exclusive residences. And there are infinite other things which make it clear and obvious that this is the case. I went there- I saw it. There's no debate here. Im not stating an opinion- Im stating a fact that everyone who knows the first thing about the country already knows. Venezuelans will tell you it (unless they have a vested interest). The fact that you dont know it shows that its you who've been believing propaganda, and also shows that you know absolutely NOTHING about the situation on the ground.
By the way, as for "your time is up", are you talking about capitalism? Because hahaha that would be a joke. Eventually, capitalist america may be overtaken by capitalist china. Theyll one day maybe even be overtaken by another capitalist country. And venezuela? Who cares, right? It's a joke that no one even hears. "Our time", is not "up". It's continuing as normal, as expected, as it always has done.
john61
03 May 2008 at 15:22
you idiot. you went there they kicked you out because you were STEALING TOO MUCH?? and that becomes your credetial? your idiotic stupidity know no limits.
 
you can contunue on with you endless bullshit and continue on with you nonsense idiotic propaganda until you gangstas lead into into the sunset of history .
 
one one time you IDIOT: YOUR IMPERIALIST GANGSTERS TIME IS RUNNING OUT. you have reached the END of your pathetic criminal path. all your favorite ganasta scam filled empires and you puppets have collaped. and the one will too.
 
and BTW keep on bullshitting because that's the onlty thing left for you to lull yourself into an alchoholic stooper. the PEOPLE HAVE AWAKEN you time is up.
antileft
04 May 2008 at 15:16
haha yes indeed john, I was kicked out of venezuela for (ahem) stealing "too much". Because just stealing is ok, right john? Not very bright, are ya john? And yet you havent yet told me how my time could possibly be "up". As I said, capitalist countries rule the world, and capitalist China will most probably follow america, followed by another capitalist power. How will Chavez' tacky form of socialism "take over", when the USSR failed? Hmm? Can you answer that one? Or are you not bright enough to articulate a defense for your slightly moronic beliefs?
john61
04 May 2008 at 16:32
you can bullshit all you want about this of that leader. you pathetic ASSHOLE.
 
one one time for you you TONEDAEF IDIOT:
 
YOUR IMPERIALIST GANGSTERS TIME IS RUNNING OUT. you have reached the END of your pathetic criminal path. all your favorite ganasta scam filled empires and you puppets have collapsed. and the one will too. and YOU BURIED UNDER IT.